Posts by Christ Alone

81

Do you know why God cannot KNOW?

by Terry in

logic prohibits self-reference.

it is a convention like not multiplying by zero.

live with it!.

Christ Alone

Aha! May I be allowed to call your attention to cheating? :)

:-) Sorry... but that is what is necessary for an ultimate SPIRITUAL God. Christianity has always taught that God is a spirit, which by definition excludes Him from the physical. There has always been a specific difference in Christianity between the physical and the spiritual.

I'm only pointing out that it is also a form of cheating to describe something as a true fact which is a logical impossibility.

And I'm only pointing out that if we DO believe in a spiritual realm that is separate from the physical, then this is not a logical impossibility. Can the spiritual ever be proven using physical methods? I don't know. So far it doesn't look so good, although quantum theory is changing alot regarding how we view the physical world.

81

Do you know why God cannot KNOW?

by Terry in

logic prohibits self-reference.

it is a convention like not multiplying by zero.

live with it!.

Christ Alone

Well then why not take it a step further and say that god simply can not prevent atrocities because the uber-god, which exists outside of god's existence outside of our time and space, is preventing him.

Valid point. And it leads to the question, "Is there anything that God CAN'T do?" Can God create something so heavy that he cannot lift it? Can God lie? Can God stop being God or stop existing? If God "almighty" can do anything as some claim then can he make another God? Can He give Godhood to a man, or angel? Can God sin? Can God learn something new? Can God be wrong?

81

Do you know why God cannot KNOW?

by Terry in

logic prohibits self-reference.

it is a convention like not multiplying by zero.

live with it!.

Christ Alone

IF you tell your interrogator that FACT it immediately becomes a NON-fact by virtue of what that knowledge will cause the interrogator to do.

Sorry, I couldn't stop. :-)

The knowledge, in this case, is no longer just knowledge. It is knowledge passed on to someone else that can change the event. The knowledge became action in relating it to another. It is not your having KNOWLEDGE of the bomb that will go off. It was by your TELLING the fact that changes what the interrogator will do.

God having foreknowledge of all events, thoughts, actions, etc does not require that he relates all that He knows.

There are is no certainty to knowledge UNLESS and UNTIL what is being called "known" actually TAKE PLACE.

I agree with you, which is why by necessity of this belief, God must exist outside of time where past and future are present to Him. I'm struggling to argue this because I know that you don't give any credit to a belief in God or any type of scripture. (Not being insulting). I'm just speaking philosophically that you are right. A present God bound by time and space could not exercise His foreknowledge. And this is why this has been a question that has been debated for ages.

97

Pat Condell on Aggressive Atheism

by cantleave in

this is pretty much how i feel.......who disagrees with this?.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yjo4duhmrzk&noredirect=1.

Christ Alone

Science is a method not a body of knowledge.

A misconception of what science is, does not change what it actually is.

Agreed. My word useage was probably poor. I meant a person's view of science or more accurately what scientists are saying. A person CAN give as much reverence to what scientists are saying as a religious person can give to what a church is saying. No need to know the hows and whys. Just the "whats".

I've seen as much on this site. A statement is made about what is true in science. But there is no knowledge behind the hows and whys. And there are many interpretations regarding the scientific data that is presented. A different scientist will interpret the data in different ways. So depending on who you give more credence to, your view will be shaped by THEM. It runs very much the same in religion.

81

Do you know why God cannot KNOW?

by Terry in

logic prohibits self-reference.

it is a convention like not multiplying by zero.

live with it!.

Christ Alone

And I agree with you, Terry. None of this is provable, just as God's existence or non existance is ultimately unprovable.

81

Do you know why God cannot KNOW?

by Terry in

logic prohibits self-reference.

it is a convention like not multiplying by zero.

live with it!.

Christ Alone

The impossible part should now be evident: ACTUAL time has a limit while INFINITE time has no limit. The Task is a logical impossibility from the outset

because self-reference makes it an absurdity.

Unless God is not bound by time and exists outside of the physical universe where past and future are present to Him.

81

Do you know why God cannot KNOW?

by Terry in

logic prohibits self-reference.

it is a convention like not multiplying by zero.

live with it!.

Christ Alone

If he knows all, why does he not intervene before atrocities happen?

I DON'T know! :-) I'm not God.

Ok, that was a cop out.

If God was to stop ONE atrocity, then He would need to stop ALL atrocities and not allow any of them. However, we do have free will, which God allows. It is not logically necessary that since God HAS not stopped evil and suffering in the world, that He CANNOT.Biblically speaking, pain and suffering are the results of sin in the world. Adam, who represented all humanity as well as creation, rebelled against God and brought suffering into the world. Ultimately, we can't know all the reasons why God allows suffering, we just know that He does. But there are various ideas:

1. Free will is allowed by God, and this leads to suffering at the hands of people.

2. God has a greater plan. He allowed Christ to suffer for the benefit of others. They are shown that they are lost without God in their lives, and it leads them to accepting Jesus as their only means for salvation.

3. He allows some suffering for a greater good: Sometimes we learn our greatest lessons after having suffered the consequences of our actions -- and this is good. Not that all suffering leads to good, but some does. And as above, it can lead us to acknowledging that we need Jesus' sacrifice.

4. It's the result of sin and our own conscious separation from God.

5. It serves as a warning: Evil and suffering in the world can serve as a warning against breaking God's law and then people can see the necessity of following God's truth.

6. It proves the point that evil and suffering in the world prove that rebellion against Him brings pain and suffering.

7. And the BIG one...who knows...

Everything brings us to the point of realizing that humans will never end suffering. It's impossible. Any promised human utopia cannot be realized. There will always be suffering.

Unless...

97

Pat Condell on Aggressive Atheism

by cantleave in

this is pretty much how i feel.......who disagrees with this?.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yjo4duhmrzk&noredirect=1.

Christ Alone

I don't know if 'believing' in science is really the correct sentiment.

I don't know...I think some people have a sort of reverence to science that compares to those that have a reverence to religion. Some may think that science is always right until they get "new light" and the view is changed. Instead of learning how and why scientists have settled on a certain fact or theory, they just take it as truth and go on repeating it, not knowing the "hows" or "whys" but just taking it in faith.

Yeah, I used the word "faith"! But if you don't know how or why scientists are reaching a certain conclusion, then you are having faith that those scientists are right.

I'm not including everyone. Or even most. But many.

97

Pat Condell on Aggressive Atheism

by cantleave in

this is pretty much how i feel.......who disagrees with this?.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yjo4duhmrzk&noredirect=1.

Christ Alone

However it does free us up to look for real answer to the complex, age-old questions, as we are unlikely to settle on the god explanation. This has worked out pretty good for everyone.

Very true. And perhaps this is a fundamental problem with many religious people. Because they "can" answer everything with "God", then they stop looking for real world answers. It's a sort of thought stop process. Someone can say, "Well what about...." and a person can easily ignore the implications by saying, "God did it."

It may not appear that way, but I am not content with just believing in God and ignoring everything else. I love reading about science, including evolution, and while my worldview DOES effect it, I feel like I need to know the answers that science can and does provide.

Interestingly I usually find that science strengthens my faith in God.

81

Do you know why God cannot KNOW?

by Terry in

logic prohibits self-reference.

it is a convention like not multiplying by zero.

live with it!.

Christ Alone

IF you divulge the day and hour and location of the event IN ADVANCE you insure the event will NOT occur.

So you're saying that by prophesying, you are ensuring that what you prophecy will not happen? As PSac brought out, if God is God, and is not bound by space or time, is not a physical entity and exists only in a spiritual sense, then why can He not know all things, or even FORCE things to happen that He wishes?

Your interrogators want specific information in Advance of the actual occurance in order to PREVENT the actual occurance.

But does God ALWAYS make known everything that He knows so that it CAN be prevented?